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1000pts Wood Elves vs Empire

posted Feb 23, 2012 15:59:32 by MichaelJordal
Wood Elves List
Highborn
Noble BSB
Glade Riders x5
Drayads x8
Treekin x 6

Empire
Archlector
Warrior Priest
Captain BSB
Swordsmen x10
Knigts x8
Mortar
Cannon

I vanguarded and then moved up 8 inches to shoot my Hail of Doom and glade riders at the Mortar. My Hail of Doom was lame again:( 8 shots which only killed one from the mortar. I moved them into contact with the ghost fence as well. Moved my Treekin up 10 inches to get as close to the Glade Riders as possible and put my dryads in from of his knights.

His turn he charges my dryads and my Glade Riders. I wasn't sure if I should flee or stand and shoot with my Glade Riders. I decided to Stand and shoot, but then I didn't get a single kill:( In combat he unfortunately didn't fail his fear test and we each did 3 wounds and had a standard and musician, so it was a push. His mortar did a wound to my treekin. His Knights kill like 2 Dryads and run them down, so his knights are deep in my deployment zone.

I charge his swords with my Treeking and get in. He fails the fear test to my Treekin, but still gets another glade rider killed, but I kill like 4 or 5 and break him and run him down with both units.

He gets another wound on the treekin with grapeshot and blows up his mortar as his Knighst come back at me.

I charge the canon with my Treekin and move my glade riders to shoot at the knights to no avail, but my treekin dominate the cannon and reform to face the knights.

He moves the knigths at me again.

I move my treekin up to the fence and shoot again to no avail.

He charges me and we remain locked in combat for the rest of the game.

I lost a unit of dryads, but got a mortar, cannon, swordsmen and warior priest.
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24 replies
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Greg2thePerson said Feb 25, 2012 15:31:50
Sounds like it was a solid showing for the Wood Elves! How did you equip your characters?
The slightly less beautiful host.
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MichaelJordal said Feb 26, 2012 16:25:35
Wood Elf Highborn
Elven Steed
Hail of Doom Arrow
Gambler's Armor

Wood Elf Noble
BSB
Armor of Destiny
Elven Steed
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Peyton said Feb 26, 2012 20:52:15
Nice work wood elfs! Though admittedly that Empire list is absolute garbage! Was your opponent just playing with the battalion set or something? How were his characters equipped?
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MichaelJordal said Feb 26, 2012 21:12:30
Absolute garbage??? The Empire list went 2-2 at Da Snotling 1000 with a general that was attending his first tournament and had only played 4 games of Warhammer in total prior to the tourney and 3 of them being with that list. I would say that list is well above garbage all things considered.

Arch Lector
Heavy Armor
Shield
Warhorse
Barding
Mace of Helsturm
Speculum
Dragonbane Gem

Captain of the Empire
BSB
Warhorse
Barding
Armor of Destiny

Warrior Priest
Heavy Armor
Shield
Dragonhelm
Luckstone

Swordsman x10
Champion
Standard
Musician

Knightly Ordersx8
Champion
Standard
Musician
Standard of Discipline

Cannon

Mortar
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Peyton said Feb 26, 2012 23:40:59
Maybe that speaks more for the skill level of his opponents than his list's effectiveness! ;)

Though it does look better now I know that the BSB and Lector are mounted, Cant't you just tie up the 650 point knight bus with a cheap ranked unit, or just redirect it and gank the easy points from the swordsmen, warrior priest and artillery with your faster units? The character builds aren't as effective as they could be for the points and if his opponent has a lv.4 (fairly likely) he will really struggle to stop spells that will wreck that unit(shadow, metal, death, any characteristic checks, etc).

Also, if any of his opponents have a bus/deathstar of their own, his will probably get stomped or ground out. Almost every other army does combat units better than us empire, and with no magic to buff the unit, it'll show on any turn that unit isn't charging.

That's my take on it, I mean in your battle report his bus got 96 points...not the return I look for in a 650 point unit.

Cheers

Peyton
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MichaelJordal said Feb 27, 2012 01:24:31
I can't speak for the skill level of all of his opponents, but the skill level of the event on a whole was pretty high. Several folks from the Lords of War including 3 time Adepticon winner Jeff Schiltgen as well as a couple of the Handsome Point Boys among many others.

I don't know how much you have played 1000 pts, but I didn't see a single level 4 in my games. Most armies can't even fit a level 4 and if they can it has to be naked.

The way that list is played is to protect your war machines with knights and swordsmen.

I think the character builds are very effective. In one game I know the archlector killed a warshrine with the mace of helsturm and khorne chariot. The BSB is about as protected as he can be which is what you want in order to keep your rerollable ld 10 alive. The warrior priest is also pretty well protected which is good to keep his hatred alive.

Yeah, he learned his lesson from our practice battle and did well in his first tournament for it. It is a newbie mistake to take the bait on a charge like that, but once you do it once you figure it out:)

Anyway, I just thought it was kind of rude to call my list absolute garbage especially since I think it can be empirically proven to not be true seeing how it performed. I can understand having a different playstyle, but calling someone's list aboslute garbage is a bit trollish.
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Peyton said Feb 27, 2012 03:15:13
Sorry man, I didn't mean to insult your list building skills! I can be rather blunt in stating my opinions, I meant no offense. The character builds definitly go a long way in making the list workable, when I saw your first post I thought, "Oh, your opponent is new. He just bought a battalion, characters he liked, and added some war machines, that can't work well!"

Ive played some 1000 point tournies, mostly doubles since that's a little small for my liking! It is different building a stand alone 1000 point list but not wildly.

Actually most armies Can fit a lv4 wizard in at 1000 points, and anything that's adding more than one or two to its cast will give you problems, even with two extra dispel dice. So a lv3 works equally well IMO. If theyre naked, I'd hope the army build had some strategy to keep said wizard out of combat right? Im not surprised when there's a grey seer, master necromancer, dark elf supreme sorceress, etc across the table at 1000 points.

The arch lector's kit doesnt really sync though IMO. Either your using the mace for 1 attack and wasting the 30 point VHS, or vice versa! He's also not as well protected as I'd want a character worth 350 points, better hope he doesnt find himself vs any high strength/killing blow!

For the BSB A 1+ re-rollable is what I go for, it's cheaper than the 4+ ward and more effective i've found.

I guess the biggest problem I have with the list is the swordsmen and warrior priest. There's really not much this unit can handle in combat (and is still worth a lot of points relatively), and anything it can like fast cav or skirmishers can easilly out manuever it and get to the war machines. Those points could be spent on an engineer to make the war machines somewhat reliable, and beef out that bus, which without magic buffs or any real combat characters needs all the bodies it can get!

Maybe I'm missing something, have you played many games with that list? What's your deployment/ battle plan look like?

Cheers

Peyton
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MichaelJordal said Feb 27, 2012 04:38:27
Well I can understand constructive criticism, but flat out saying a list is absolute garbage isn't helpful and is just mean. This post where you raise points is something where I can at least see where you are coming from, but I don't agree with most of it.

There are 3 extra dispel dice in that list and I believe that generally helped a lot. In my games I ran across a Lvl 2 Tzeentch on disc, Lvl 2 Warlock Engineer, Lvl 2 Herald of Tzeentch and Lvl 2 Ogre Butcher. I was only running a Lvl 1 Skink Priest. Their may have been some level 4s there, but I didn't see it. With the Empire list I thought Rerollable 10 leadership was more important than wizardry.

I don't understand what you are talking about with the Archlector kit. It is pretty standard, not my own idea at all. Get him in combat with something that has multiwounds and kill it in one shot, or get him in a challenge and rack up overkill. The 1+ AS is pretty good protection against most things, and if you can find the flame banner he is near invincible:) Also, he is 250 pts. 350 pts would be illegal.

The 1+ rerollable on the BSB is nice and I like it too, but the Ward Save is so nice for the high strength things and killing blow.

I think you underestimate the hatred wielding swordsmen in 1000 pts. It isn't a great unit I agree, but it can babysit the war machines alright. I would have liked to fit an engineer in the list too, but you have to make tough decisions at 1000 pts and not everything can be in the list.

You probably just have a different style of play. I am sure you can win games with whatever list you play too, but this list isn't absolute garbage it can win games as well.
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Peyton said Feb 27, 2012 12:23:07
Now that you've posted the character's gear, I agree that this list definitly isn't in the absolute garbage category. However, can you see how I read your first post, saw (what I assumed was) a new player's list with some characters, a minimum unit of swordsmen, small unit of knights, and artillery with no re-rolls and wondered how the list could possibly be competitive? I was simply voicing my (rude) opinion, such as it was, again apologies.

Completely forgot the warrior priest's dispel die (don't usually run them). I guess magic wise I would see a lv.4 or the Arch Lector on war altar as a more effective lord choice with more utility. Some magic missiles would be good to blast chaff units that are attempting to block up the bus, and the lore of light buffs are fantastic on the knight unit (+1 attack, ASF and double movement? Yes please!). The altar provides some punch, a ward save, and an effective magic phase since you can chuck 6 dice, IF the spell and suffer no miscasts or drawbacks. It's also extremely hard to kill both him and the altar, 350 points your opponent probably wont get (250 for AL, 100 for killing the general). I just think for that many points the lord should have a bigger influence on the game. With the Mace build, what help is it if you're knights & Lector are fighting a standard infantry unit like a horde of gors, for example?

Can the swordsmen handle another unit of infantry of the same points cost (wp included)? I'd imagine with their numbers so low they'd just get ground out, and if they take missile fire they'd lose almost all effectiveness. I'm also curious as to how you deploy them to protect the war machines from fast cav or harpies, something fast that can zip around the unit's small front arc.

Cheers

Peyton
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MichaelJordal said Feb 27, 2012 14:26:05
You depoly them in the corner. I don't think the War Alter fits in 1000 pts. I don't think I want to run a naked lvl 4. It didn't seem like anyone else at the tourney did either. Maybe you could come with your list and wreck everyone there though.
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Peyton said Feb 27, 2012 17:38:37
You can fit a waltar in, or a lv.4 with a 5+ ward...just suggestions. By all means carry on without a lv.4, not planning on forcing you. I'm not saying I've broken the Empire army book, but some units that are good at 2500 are as good or better at 1000 points.
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MichaelJordal said Feb 27, 2012 18:04:07
If you put him on a war alter though, you lose your knights hatred:( And I hate rubber lances.
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Peyton said Feb 27, 2012 20:42:06
Haha, yeah nothing like a knight bus totally bouncing off regular rank and file to ruin your game! The Light buffs that you can cast on the knights are pretty darn good too, WS & I 10 so you're hitting first on 3's, ASF and extra attacks, or -1 to hit! Worth testing out in a few practice games at any rate! Are 1000 point games common where you game?

Cheers

Peyton
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MichaelJordal said Feb 27, 2012 20:53:45
Well Adepticon always has a couple of them and there are a few tourneys around at that level. The next tourney I am going to is 2400 points though.

I am very familiar with the power of lore of light. I have had some really good runs with Lizards and lore of light. Can't do that at 1000 pts though.
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Peyton said Feb 27, 2012 22:54:27
It turns the knights into a fairly capable combat unit (i'd still want a couple more in that unit), they have very modest stats and their only upside is the 1+ armour save. I really hope they get a boost in S, WS or a points reduction in the new book.
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