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Painting Tabled Forum > Episode Discussion

Episode 28

posted Sep 24, 2012 13:47:49 by JonathanVanase
Sorry guys, but I have to disagree with your assessments of the myths of the hobby!

I used cheapo craft store brushes for years of drybrushing, and they got shredded in record time. Sometimes I would trim the bristles as you said, depending on the brush shape. However, earlier this year I got some of the Citadel drybrushes just for the heck of it, and they still look like new after about 8 months of use. Haven't used the Army Painter brand, but I assume they will hold up good too. Well worth the $5-8 for the more expensive brushes.
On a side note, maybe for Christmas I will invest in some Windsor&Newtons and see if they really do make a difference.

On the water cups, I've been painting a lot of white lately and not only am I cleaning my brush in the usually red or blue water, but I even use that water directly to water down my white paint! Same for metallics. I usually paint the metals on my models first (not sure why, just like doing it that way) and I don't change the water before painting the rest of the model. The amount of pigment in the water is just so minute. Sometimes I will use my cup of water for days at a time.

Anyway, it's all opinion. Just thought I would share mine.
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6 replies
JonathanVanase said Sep 24, 2012 14:00:33
Oh, I agree with you both on the NMM!

For blending, I think you need to consider two kinds. Really, what you were talking about I think is technically called "glazing". It's where the paint is so thin that you put down only a very small amount of pigment on each brush stroke. Using some blank paint medium can help a lot there. The other (or the real?) blend is a wet blend. That's where you put two colors on the model, and swirl or "blend" them together with a brush (or two brushes). This usually involves a paint retarder. Sometimes, you can combine the two and do a blend with glazes!
Greg mentioned about doing blending on certain parts, and doing normal layers on other parts. I couldn't agree more! Some surfaces really lend themselves to a blend, and other times it could be overly difficult for no gain.
The last model I did (a dragon), I blended the gem on the top of the head and the tongue (wet blend) and the large tops of the wings (glazed). The rest of the model was all layered. I just felt that those surfaces lended themselves to the techniques in question.

Dropper bottles versus pots? I like them both, for different reasons. In general these days I learn more towards the dropper bottles. I think for the washes the pots are a very nice way to use them though since they don't sit well on a wet pallet. Tend to agree with Greg too that the pots are convenient for getting a very small amount of paint for a touchup.
JonathanVanase said Sep 24, 2012 14:23:02
Hmm, I paint right out of the pot lots of times. For details? No way. But for basecoats, right out of the pot yo!

I do prefer using daylight bulbs, but I think in general you need to think about where your audience will be viewing your models. Since that is usually in a store or a gaming hall, it'll probably be under fluorescent bulbs. For me, I like the way the colors are represented by a daylight bulb and that is also how I photograph them (by the way, I need to built a real photo booth) but I don't expect them to look exactly the same under all conditions.
ThatDarnSatan said Sep 27, 2012 00:21:23
I'm sorry to hear Mike is done with his Terrain Tips for now. I wish I could think of something else I'd like to know about in order to draw him out of retirement, but from my newbie terrain builder's perspective he's been comprehensive and I don't know what might be missing. I think that even if Painting Tabled was a dismal podcast (quite the opposite, of course!), it would be worth downloading for the terrain tip alone. Great job, Mike!

On brushes, it's impossible for me to insist to someone that no, they're wrong, they're not doing work that satisfies them with their cheapo brushes!! -- but based on personal experience, if they did get some good brushes (probably Series 7s, aka. Vorpal Paintbrush +3), I'm confident they'd eventually admit that the upgrade was worth it. My painting got significantly, noticeably better when I invested in good brushes. The technical part of miniature painting is mostly brush control, and that's what a good brush is all about, helping you to hold the right amount of paint and putting it where you want it to go. One's painting might be OK with a lesser brush, but better painting is always worth striving for and a good brush helps facilitate that.

I'm in favor of daylight bulbs because I can see the miniature while I paint it. :)
ScottMorgan said Sep 28, 2012 18:56:36
On the discussion of NMM and if they're necessary to be a great painter, it's a matter of what the final effect you want to achieve is - I certainly don't think it's required; especially as you look at the absolutely top tier painters. I've started down the path of using what's call True Metallic Metals where you try to work glazing and color into your metallics to give the a richness and vibrancy ever since I got turned onto it at Massive Voodoo. Here's the tutorial/explanation from that site:

If you ever want to look at samples to really challenge your ideas of what an exceptional miniature can look like, this is a great source. I occasionally look to it for inspiration, but it's often just as likely to make me feel like I'm still a complete novice. But hey, that's the point of reaching for greatness - sometimes one needs a kick in the pants.

Lots of great tutorials on his site and the work that group does is top notch. I highly recommend it!

While I like and definitely appreciate NMM and have used it fairly competently on some of my models in the past, I think it's easy to trend to a more cartoony look when it's used, so it needs to be done carefully. But that's part of the skill of the technique is not just doing it, but doing it intelligently and to best effect.

ScottMorgan said Sep 28, 2012 19:12:30
On brushes - I'm definitely an advocate of brush quality, but by use. Basecoats, any brush that holds a tip will do. Drybrushing, use brushes you've already destroyed - it's where old brushes go to die. But once you get to layering and details, you absolutely will feel the difference with a good brush.

Now, I'm also a family man and a father and I'm not about to drop $20-30 per brush, I don't care how long it lasts. So I buy through art suppliers where I can get them at deep discount:

MUCH better pricing - spending $10-12 for a size 0 or 1 series 7 is absolutely worth the investment. I definitely encourage you to give it a try!

Greg2thePerson said Oct 05, 2012 01:30:23
Thanks for all the feedback, guys!

This is the first I've heard of the true metallic metal approach. I've definitely got some learning to do. :-)

Great suggestion for getting high quality brushes at lower prices.
The slightly less beautiful host.
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