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2000 Point Bret List (2nd list no wizard)

posted Oct 29, 2012 04:31:39 by jake_hutton
Prophetess w Lvl 4 (Heavens), Bret Warhorse, 240 (general)

Paladin w. BsB, Barded Warhorse, Wyrmlance (1 S(3) breath weapon, +2 S on charge, and flaming attacks)- 94

I found a neat ruling in the Bret book that says their heroes benefit from the effects of their magical lances every round in combat, unless specifically stated otherwise. He does sadly only have a +3 save, I found out the Bret BSB cannot take a shield :/

Paladin w. Virtue of Impetuous Knight, Barded Warhorse, Shield, Lance- 115

Virtue of Impetuous knight allows me to add +6" to the first charge he and his unit declares

40 Men At Arms w. Musician, Banner 215
40 Men At Arms w. Musician, Banner 215

10 Bowmen w. Braziers (flaming ranged attacks) 65
10 Bowmen w. Braziers 65

9 Knights Errant w. Errantry Banner (-2 LD on Impetuous tests, but +1 S on the charge), Full Command 221
6 Knights of the Realm w. Full Command, Banner of Discipline 183 (Prophetess goes in here)
8 Knights of the Realm w. Full Command, Banner of Swiftness (Paladin goes in here) 231
6 Knights of the Realm w. Full Command 168

2 Trebuchets 180

So this list will use the trebs and lore of heavens to try to push my opponent towards me. If the opponent makes use of a lot of warmachines (which scare my knights) I will most likely have comet, or Thunderbolt to help the trebs eliminate those pesky machines with.

The Knights Errant are a hand grenade unit. I charge them into something that scares me that I think they can hurt, and hope they either maim it, or hold it back for a few turns. (With Impetuous can't expect them to hold back forever, so might as well shoot them forward).

The rest of the army meanwhile would advance under the cover of magic and trebs. The Men at Arms are to trap the opponent into a steadfast unit, and hopefully follow thru with a knight charge into the flank. If an enemy unit looks especially scary, I may even just throw a peasant unit at it, hope it last for a few turns and try to clean up other units.

Strengths- Points are Spread out, my other Bret list suffered from death star syndrome, which kept getting killed. With points spread around it should be harder to lose because of one poor break test.

-2 large units to be stead fast

-A few maneuverable, relatively hard hitting knight blocks. They won't eliminate an enemy on their own, but then again they are not supposed to.

- I have a lvl 4 so my dispelling should be top notch, and so should my casting (at 2k lots of local players take a lvl 3, or multiple lvl 2s)

Weaknesses-

-Large Monsters. Without the Heroic Killing blow lord I have only my trebs to rely on to kill large monsters. They can do it well if they remain on target. thats a big if ;).

-No really hard punch, the army lacks any really big knock out punch. Large units will be a problem, hopefully between trebs, multiple units and my large unit I can even the odds, but I expect to just need to avoid certain units.

-No way to take on killy lord builds

-My Heroes are relatively vulnerable.

Ok so thoughts? Please feel free to pick it apart, but bare in mind this is a 2000 point list so bringing all the toys just doesn't work. I debated back and forth a lot about taking Heavens, and I am still not sold on it, but its low casting costs, combined with long ranges seems like a win. I will miss Wildform though :/.
[Last edited Oct 29, 2012 16:35:42]
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8 replies
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jake_hutton said Oct 29, 2012 16:34:39
I also Wrote this 2nd list. I think I like this one better but would like opinions.

Bret Lord w. Virtue of Heroism (Heroic Killing Blow), Barded Warhorse, Shield, Sword of Bloodshed (+3 attacks) 234

Paladin w. BSB, Barded Warhorse 74
Paladin w. Royal Pegasus, Charmed Shield, Lance, Grail Vow (Magical attacks immune to psychology) 131
Paladin w. Barded Horse, Vow of Impetuous Knight (+D6" on first charge), Shield, Lance, Luckstone 120

40 Men At Arms w. Musician, Banner 215
40 Men At Arms w. Musician, Banner 215
6 Knights of the Realm w. Full Command 168 (BSB goes in here)
8 Knights of the Realm w. Full Command, Banner of Swiftness 231 (the impetuous paladin goes in here allowing crazy long charges)
8 Knights of the Realm w. Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame 226 (Heroic Killing Blow guy goes in here)

10 Men at arms 50 (chaff/ disposable deployment)
10 Men at Arms 50

5 Pegasus Knights w. Musician 285

So that's the list. Its probably obvious a few things are missing, namely wizards or Trebs. I'll explain my thought behind this. Without wizards I could afford both the Peg knight and the impetuous knight. Yes I will get hammered in magic, but if I purposefully hold my dice to try to only dispel 1 spell a phase, hopefully I can weather the storm until my stuff gets stuck in. Also the Pegasus hero and Peg Knights can go wizard hunting charging into units to specifically target the wizards if need be. Its risky, but at 2K something has to be missing.

Missing the 2 Trebs may hurt. But since my army should be moving forward full force from turn 1 on Trebs will only get maybe 1 or 2 turns of good target shooting. I felt points were better spent elsewhere.

Strengths
-2 Hard Hitting Knight Buses backed up by 2 big blocks of Men At Arms should do well
-The paladin on Pegasus coupled with the 5 Peg knights should really drive my opponents crazy, hopefully 1 if not both can survive to hit their targets which will be warmachines, vulnerable mages, and chaff
-with 7 heroic Killing blow flaming attacks I should tear through monsters and monstrous infantry.
-its kind of fluffy a Bret list with absolutely no shooting
-It should throw some people off balance, not having trebs or wizards
-Ability to easily get 2nd turn charges (even potentially 1st turn)

Weaknesses
-Vulnerable to magic Heavy list, I'm really relying on my high armor saves and ward saves to bear the brunt of damage so I can get stuck in
-Elite infantry could pose a problem
-My characters are not the best protected

So thoughts? I think I like this list better then the other one its something different and looks like fun to play.
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Greg2thePerson said Oct 29, 2012 21:56:36
I think both lists look pretty interesting. Personally, I prefer the first list because it has a nice balance of magic, shooting, and combat potential. As you've discussed, your second list plays on your strengths of mobility and combat prowess, and may be a more powerful build. I'd say try them both out and see what you like!
The slightly less beautiful host.
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jake_hutton said Oct 30, 2012 17:18:32
Thanks for the input Greg (how did you guys weather the storm?). I'm playing in a map campaign, and two of my frequent opponents have been Vampire Counts, I'm thinking of using the second list against them. Since they have no shooting, and they mostly spam low lvl casters to do invocation (which is super hard to stop) if figure no magic won't be too much of a disadvantage.

I'll play around with it and post my findings after getting in some games.

What is people's opinions about lore choice in the first list? Does heavens seem appropriate? Life was very tempting, but I think Heavens has more spells that will be useful. Thoughts?
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Peyton said Oct 30, 2012 18:56:36
If you're rumbling against vampires no lv4 is a huge disadvantage! With the +4 dispel, you'll be stopping a lot of the spells he's casting if he's spamming low level casters. If he's not raising then your knights have a much better shot of chopping through blocks, otherwise you're getting bogged down. The heavens debuffs will also go a long way in keeping that vampire lord from ripping through your knights!

I like the first list a lot more. It's got good magic (heavens is a great lore, especially for 2+ save knights), flaming shots to knock regen off monsters and then hit with two trebs (for their points one of the best shooting units in the game), and plenty of close combat power. The second list looks like all it can do is charge knights and peasants into combats and hope for the best, which with an average human statline isn't going to do it vs most armies with any combat ability, especially since they'll be buffed by the magic you can't stop without a lv4. My 2 cents, by all means take whichever list you like playing best!

About the BSB, can't he take a dragonhelm to give him a 2+ save? And a dawnstone to make it re-rollable? Or just an enchanted shield for a 1+? I think any of these choices would make him more surviveable in either list.


Cheers

Peyton
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jake_hutton said Oct 31, 2012 05:37:05
The paladin can take the dragon helm (not sure about enchanted shield the army book says he can't take regular shields so I would presume no magical either?). I could remove the banner of swiftness from the first list in place for the dragon helm on the BsB. I did want to give him equipment to be more survivable, but finding the points is pretty tough.

What about dropping the Knights Errant, bumping the 6 man unit of knights of the realm up to a 8 man unit, that's 48 points. That leaves 174 points to spend, 30 points into gromril great helm (giving him a rerollable +2 save).

144 left
Paladin on Royal Pegasus w. Shield, lance + Earthing Rod on the Prophetess
OR
6 Knights errant w. Champion 120 +Channelling staff on Prophetess
Or
10 more Bowmen w. Flaming attacks 65, Earthing Rod on Prophetess,and bumping one Men at arms unit up to 50 strong.

Thanks for the tips guys. I see what both of you are saying about the second list.
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jake_hutton said Nov 02, 2012 02:35:46
So I played a game with the 1st list today. My opponent was playing empire he had a hellblaster with an engineer, large unit of halberdiers large unit spearmen, about 24 or so greatswords, 4 DemiGrphy Knights, a Hurricanum, a warrior priest on war alter, lvl 4 on metal, and a BSB on pegasus in the spearmen unit along with the lvl 4 so the lvl 4 goes in second rank.

My opponent got 2 towers to start with (because I was attacking his fortified town). He only used one put his hellblaster in the tower (to my delight) .

In the end I lost but very narrowly (by 200 points ish, came down to last combat).
A few highlights/Thoughts
-Trebs love when units go in buildings, D6 multiple wound D6 Strength 10! Needless to say the hellblaster and engineer died.
-Heavens was really great, low casting with many useful spells.
-Greatswords don't do to well against men at arms.
-My opponents little archer blocks were a real pain. They kept blocking chrage paths ect.
-I did not know how to deal with demigrphys
-I took a lvl 2 on beast, she didn't get a chance to do much (got killed fast). I like having her to help, she had the power stone so when I really need wildform i use it)

Overall I liked how this list played much more. I will be using it some more, hopefully with more experience I will learn how to use it better.
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Greg2thePerson said Nov 02, 2012 10:23:15
Sounds like a good game!

Perhaps you could use some Peasant Bowmen, Mounted Yeomen, or the Ruby Ring of Ruin to help you clear off chaff?
The slightly less beautiful host.
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jake_hutton said Nov 02, 2012 16:29:06
I dropped Chain Lightning which turned out to be a mistake because it would have been perfect for chaff clearing.

My spells were abysmal at clearing chaff 1 uranon's thunderbolt and flock of doom into the same 5 man archer unit only killed one altogether lol. My bowmen could have been useful for chaff clearing but I deployed them wide to distract the demigrphys.

I think mounted yeoman would have been perfect, sadly they are the only models from the list I don't have :/. Might have to fix that as they are starting to look pretty useful, basically discount peg knights.
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